Participation as protection

[Introduction] 

This is a Research in Practice podcast supporting evidence informed practice with children and families, young people and adults.  

Susan: Hi I'm Susan Ridpath. In this podcast we're talking about how important participation is. I'm joined by my colleague Emily Smith.  

Emily: Hi I'm Emily. Both Susan and I are from Research in Practice. And in this podcast, you'll hear us in discussion with Meg, Evie and Keeley: three members of the Young Researchers’ Advisory Panel (YRAP). The YRAP are a group of young people working to improve support for young people affected by sexual violence and other forms of abuse. They work with the Safer Young Lives Research Centre to ensure their research is informed by, and undertaken with, young people including those with lived experience of the issues being explored.  

Susan: Our discussion is based on the YRAP's model ‘Participation as Protective’, an accessible, visual resource which shows how participation can be protective in three different ways. Firstly, when young people are involved in their own support and care. Secondly, when they're able to work with peers to influence change. And lastly, when they can work collectively to influence research, policy and practice. Within each theme are a series of compelling statements and images drawn by artist Zuhura Plummer demonstrating how each form of participation can be protective at an individual level and for young people more widely.  

Emily: A picture of the model is available on the Research in Practice website along with links to other useful resources made by the YRAP. In this podcast Evie, Keeley and Meg speak thoughtfully and powerfully about the way that participation can be protective for young people and they call for professionals to take action. At the beginning of the podcast you'll hear Keeley, Evie and Meg introduce themselves and then you'll hear Keeley describe the rationale for developing this model.  

Evie: Hi I'm Evie. I work in YRAP and I personally identify as a survivor.  

Keeley: Hi I'm Keeley. And I also work in the YRAP.  

Meg: So my name's Kirsche. I work with YRAP as a research assistant and I'm also speaking on the behalf of Meg today who is semi-verbal autistic and I'll be reading the responses that she puts into the chat.  

[The rationale for Participation as Protective] 

Keeley: So we were just quite unhappy and just very uncomfortable with the way that some professionals were labelling young people with lived experience. And they had this idea and opinion that young people who have lived experience aren't good enough really to contribute and to be involved in participatory work and research. From that we recorded a conversation that we were having and then it was turned into an article from our responses and what we were saying. And from that article we then thought of the Participation as Protective model. The article by the way is called From The Ground Up.  

And from the model, the Participation as Protective, we worked with an illustrator and another previous researcher from the university and we created ideas and we went off themes from the article that we had found and pulled them all together. It was honestly amazing and the way that she, she took what we had said and created really powerful and inspiring images to go along with it. I mean, I think the less words you put on it the more powerful it will have been because the images just stand out so much and they're quite empowering.  

Evie: All of the people, range of ethnicities, because we wanted people to identify themselves within it. And yes, like Keeley said, there's a tiny little picture that goes along with all the words that just illustrates the point.  

[What does participation as protective mean to you?] 

Emily: Thank you Keeley and Evie. The points you've made just now really bring out to me the collaborative and inclusive way that the model was designed and how much care and thought went into it. Keeley spoke just now about the rationale for developing this model, that young people are not consistently getting to participate and we're going to talk more about participation and how it is protective. Evie, Keeley, Meg, what does participation as protective mean to you?  

Evie: Participation has been so empowering and healing for me, to feel part of real change. When young people experience this kind of trauma, difficult decisions are made for them and they feel like they don't really have any sense of control over their life or even their own bodies. Feeling in control and feeling like you can make an impact has been instrumental in my recovery but also made me feel a sense of purpose. There's something so rewarding to be a result of something so awful is healing.  

Keeley: I can really relate how Evie feels and how she felt going through it at the beginning. For me being involved in participatory research for such a long time, it has helped me a lot to see that everything can be so awful and that you can make a real difference and something good out of something that was terrible. What could have been like the worse day of your life, you can turn it into the best years that you've had. And being involved it gives you so much empowerment and it makes you feel heard.  

For me personally I just feel like, if I can get through that, then I can get through anything really and the opportunities that you have as well being involved in participatory research and work are just endless. There's also such a great team that you have and that you work with like a really great support because they understand and they empathise with you. So that's really nice.  

Meg: I just wanted to reflect on the response to this question, Meg has put: participating in research has pushed me along on my healing journey and has shown me that I am not as alone as I thought I was.  

[Who could benefit from this model?] 

Emily: I can see why when we spoke before this conversation, you talked about the importance of being inclusive and actually that this is something that lots of people should be able to benefit from. Who do you think could benefit from the Participation as Protection model?  

Evie: Professionals could benefit massively from using this model. People like social workers, youth offending team workers, teachers, therapists, anyone working directly with young people. Even family, friends. The people who would benefit the most though are ultimately the young people, so I think it's a valuable resource that should be out there and accessible in a wide range of context. It demonstrates the power of participation.  

I think it's also like a guide, like if you wanted to use participation you could look at this and have all of this advice that's been curated by young people.  

Keeley: It's not just limited to those individuals who work in participatory research or work, it literally could be anybody. So say, a community worker, someone who reaches out or works in outreach or something in the community, they could look at this and think of a way to get further young people involved and how to protect them when they are involved.  

Susan: It sounds like this model was created by thinking about young people affected by sexual violence, butit's useful when we're working with young people affected by anything, by any sort of harm, any sort of oppression, we can really learn a lot from the model in other circumstances.  

Evie: Yes and I also wanted to say that, it's also available in French.  

Meg: So Meg had put, I agree with Evie, participatory work benefits everyone involved. Professionals can do better work with young people and those young people will benefit in lots of ways, feeling heard, comfortable, confident and having the freedom to make choices in their own time.  

Evie: Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility. I think safeguarding and participation go hand in hand. They are not mutually exclusive.  

[Supporting safety during and through participation] 

Emily: Although participation is widely valued as a principle in children's social care, some people might be worried about the risk of bringing young people affected by sexual violence or other forms of harm together in practice. What do you think about this?  

Evie: In researching sensitive issues we must be aware for the potential of distress. Young people who have lived experience working in research can experience reminders of traumas. It is important to safeguard and prioritise young people working in research, but I do think it's important to challenge the idea that participation is risky. These risks can be massively reduced. I believe we should consider at what point the young person is in their recovery, go over boundaries, consent, making plans to mitigate risks etc. It's often, the young person will know what they need but sometimes they might help depending on where they are at in their journey. It may not be constructive for them to participate but from my personal experience it is the opposite. It helped me save myself.  

There's so much that can be done to support young people in the decision to participate and during participation. There is no excuse in my opinion. We are the professionals. We had the lived experience. Regardless of the risks there is incredible benefit for young people and from the vast knowledge of experience we have in the systems. We risk so much by not taking part in research. We miss out on so much, the opportunity to learn indefinitely through a different lens.  

I think professionals use the risks I've mentioned, along with safeguarding as a reason and I want to break those barriers. My key advice for researchers and practitioners is, it is important to encourage discussion, action and modelling on having a healthy balance and boundaries when working in the field of sexual violence or harm. Personally having someone come and talk to me, getting to know me, building a connection, is crucial. Feeling safe is important to young people, especially those who have not always experienced safety in their lives is a high priority.  

Making sure time and space is held to create these relationships should be a high priority. A key part of ensuring these trusting relationships and a healthy work environment is to prioritise time, rapport-building and relationship-building. And this leads to a level of understanding and trust, that helps us to plan and anticipate for risks.  

Not working with young people is a risk in itself for our knowledge and their recovery.  

Keeley: Evie that was incredible. You just literally just took the words out of my mouth. But no, I mean I'm, I'm, sort of reiterating myself in saying that. Or even just, like, repeating what Evie's saying in terms of yes we understand there are risks but it's, but it's more in terms of how you minimise those risks; how do you say okay we know there are barriers and we know that some things might happen but how do we overcome them and how do we try and prevent them from happening?  

But I feel like, again Evie said this, I feel like professionals and some individuals use those risks to their advantage. And to try and say, 'Oh yes, but like we didn't involve these young people because it's too risky, dah, dah, dah.' But then they don't see beyond those and think of, 'Okay, but how do we minimise those risks? And how do we get them involved?' And I just think if they could see beyond that then they would know how powerful and how important it is for young people with lived experience to be involved in participatory research. It's like that saying, 'If you can't imagine yourself in someone's shoes, don't give them advice on how to deal with a situation.' And I just feel like some professionals that I've encountered or heard about, they just seem to think, 'Oh okay, but we're not going to involve you because you're still going through it or you're talking about, like, you're still not healed or recovered from it.' But then that’s some young people's coping mechanisms, to talk about it in such a powerful way and to really have it at their heart, that this isn't okay, I want to change it, I want to use my experience to make sure that nobody else goes through it again.  

 There's a lot more positives than there is negatives but I feel like we're, we're at a brick wall a little bit with some professionals, in terms of, like, they won't get past the negatives to see the positives and that's when change isn't really being done.  

Evie: I wanted to say as well that young people do know much more than we give them credit for. They're a lot more robust than we give them credit for. And when you take away the decisions from the person they don't feel like their opinions are worthy or valid in it, so that's why it's so important to listen to young people.  

Meg: Meg was putting in the chat: professionals aren't the expert on this, we are.  

Keeley: Unfortunately there's not a training course for professionals in terms of how to approach, how to talk and how to engage with young people that have lived experience. It's something that they just have to get off their bums for unfortunately and just go and learn. There's no course to teach you that, you just have to go and do it.  

Evie: We need to trust young people to some extent. If we treat them like they don't know anything and every single thing is taken out of their hands, that makes their esteem lower and they don't trust themselves or value their own opinions or boundaries because no-one else is, this is why participation is important.  

[Building relationships based on trust, participation and listening] 

Meg: Meg had put you can't just teach empathy and sometimes basic respect.  

Evie: I think what I want to say is that even though we know professionals don't always get things right, we understand that the majority are really trying but believing that you know what's best for young people and not considering or even asking our opinions and feelings is where it can go wrong. I want to encourage professionals that they can do this and that it will be okay. Because ultimately people go into this field because they want to help people, right?   

Keeley: We do understand that they are human and that they are trying, it's just in some cases, personally for myself, if, like, I'm engaging with a professional and they talk to me in a way that I didn't particularly like, I would tell them. I was quite vocal in telling them, like, I don't like spoken to like that. I prefer this way. But after you tell them quite a couple of times, I would hope that the majority of professionals would pick up on that and sort of change their style and change the way that they're talking. So, we do understand that they're human and we do give them chances because obviously everyone can change, but after a certain amount of time, do they change though? If you're giving them that knowledge, if you're giving them that sort of, space and that time and opportunity to change.  

Evie: Yes, I think we lose, unfortunately we lose trust within professionals because they let us down continuously and that's why you probably hear anger behind some of this. I am angry. I am upset.  

Keeley: I don't think I'm angry in a sense of, like, I want to smash windows and stuff, it's, it's more like angry, as in, like, upset and frustration. You know, when you just can't do something and then you start crying because you're that frustrated with yourself, it’s that type of angry. It's just like you're not being heard because you're repeating yourself all the time and even if you say it in different ways, it's just not enough sometimes.  

Evie: I relate to that. When I told people I was struggling it always wasn't enough and then I would act drastically so someone would see me and validate me, but then because I was irrational I wasn't trusted. So it was just like a viscous cycle.  

I think some professionals think young people don't know what's best for them so we have to choose for them and I think that's a totally black and white view. I think there is grey in there. Yes there's some things we may know that, professionals know and have a duty to care for young people but it doesn't mean that young people do not have valuable opinions of how to improve their safety.  

Meg: I just wanted to say as well, a reflection that she’d [Meg] put in response to the conversation that was going between Keeley and Evie, that the strength of that feeling doesn't just come out of nowhere.  

Evie: And I think it can come across like we're not willing to work with professionals or we're angry at them or, but I think in my case I just didn't trust them. And I was scared.  

Keeley: And I think, I think like that is a, quite a communication barrier, is that when we're shouting, when we're protesting, when we're asking for things, they think that we're being quite defiant and impulsive and angry when really it's not those feelings at all, it's like we want to be heard and it's just a case of, like, a very, very, very misunderstanding between the two.  

It's not like we're not willing to budge, it's like we've got nothing to budge for, if that makes sense? So if we move, they're just going to say the same. So even if we go one way or another they're just going to be like, 'No, no, no, no, no.' And it's, like, we just need one person to say, 'Actually, no. We need to move if we want them to move.' If that makes sense?  

Evie: Yes. If people don't hear your voice, you're, especially as a child, you think of toddlers, they throw stuff out their pram don't they? And they cry. If you're voice hasn't been heard time and time again, you stop trusting that it will and so your actions are therefore speaking for you and I think sometimes professionals need to look between the lines in these reactions. Ultimately a lot of these negative reactions or unacceptable reactions are from fear. Of course I have fear from adults. For me what I went through was by someone I trusted.  

Meg: Meg's comment as well, is that, she'd say more than anything to listen. Body language is loud too. If young people are uncomfortable there is a reason. Work alongside young people to find out how to help them.  

[Participation is protective when young people work with peers to influence change] 

Emily: Thank you Meg, Keeley and Evie. Everything you said talked to participation so powerfully. Looking back to the model, what you've been discussing really speaks to that first section about young people participating in decisions about their own support and care. That section of the model picks up on the importance of creating authentic relationships, helping young people feel in control and valuing young people's voices. All themes that have come out so beautifully in your discussion. I wonder if we could look now at the second section of the model in more depth which is, participation is protective when young people work with peers to influence change. What are your reflections on this area?  

Meg: A part of the model that stands out to me is under the section, young people work with peers to influence change and it reads, 'young people start to shift their perspectives from personal to systemic/political’. I actually noticed this change within myself when I joined YRAP in 2019. I did feel really isolated and my opinions were all tailored around my own experiences. Since then my role within YRAP has not only broadened my perspectives but has also really built on my empathy and ability to imagine myself in other people's positions in order to speak on issues that we aim to change.  

Another thing that helped me with this is just talking to other people and other members and listening to them. It boosts those connections between us and makes us feel more comfortable with articulating our feelings in the future since we can find relatability with each other. This has helped us, not just be in touch with ourselves and our own feelings but with others and their feelings too which makes us see the bigger picture and be able to change that which needs changing.  

Keeley: Just from personal experience I know how rewarding and how amazing it can be working in a group with young people and achieving common goals and making a difference, making a change and actually seeing that, and the benefits it has on the groups that you're in. It means that you can sort of go on to achieve more and then you can talk about it, talk about it as well with your peers, like, 'Oh my gosh, like, did you see how we did that? Or I really liked how we did this.' And so, it builds friendships within the group. I think this section for me just screams out, like, community and friendship and sort of in a way love and sort of that understanding and that relatability to one another.  

Every time I look at this poster in this section I always get-, I always get drawn to two particular images. And the first one is two, two people and one of them is holding a door and then the other one, they're about to walk through it and the person is holding their arm out, as if to say, ‘come in’ and there's a little speech, 'it's okay I've been through the door too’. So, it's that relatability and that understanding and that, 'it's okay, I've been through it too'. There’s no judgement, there's no negative thoughts, there's no stereotypes, it's just understanding, being relatable and just saying to that person, 'it's not the same, but I've been through it too’. So, there's some similar feelings, some similar thoughts and it's just having that common ground. And then it says underneath, 'Young people may be more likely to talk to their peers and to take that first step with them.' It's so important and I really do, I really do wish and hope that professionals and practitioners and anybody working with young people recognises that, 'Okay, if they're not going to tell me, then they're going to tell their best friend. Like at least they're going to tell someone, something that's happened.'  

And then the second image is a young, a young girl hugging herself in the mirror and realising that she is worthy and she is capable of doing all the things that anybody else is doing.  

Meg: So we were saying in the chat about participation being about, you know, growth and solidarity whether you have a close or distant community, it being helpful. And Meg specifically said, reflecting on feeling, she feels that she's grown up a lot since working with others. Also said that the validation and community really helps you grow as a person and realise your own worth and other people's worth too.  

[Participation is protective when young people work collectively to influence research, policy and practice] 

Susan: Okay, so we're going to talk about the last area of the model now and that is about participation being protective when young people work collectively to influence research, policy and practice. Could you tell us a little bit more about that area?  

Keeley: I'm always reminded that I don't have to disclose any personal experiences or to reflect upon my own personal experiences. I can do if I feel comfortable and if I wish to, but it's not always expected of me and nor will it ever be expected from anyone. When young people sort of collaborate in projects, so for me there were a couple that I collaborated with the university on, and I felt that is was really protective for me because I was always asked how I wanted to be presented, how I wanted my name to be displayed. There was always someone there making sure that my identity, that my journey, my experience, was protected in the way that I felt comfortable with. Practitioners were always following the consent forms and they were always respecting the ethics and always making sure that if there was anything that popped up, that they would cover them to make sure that myself and the young people involved would feel comfortable.  

Meg: Connecting personal experience to social injustice helps us fight for social change. Seeking links to our own experiences in the problems you can see affecting other people drives you to want to change that. Identifying with others in similar experiences is validating and aiming to change things that need changing. Because of this there is massive motivation, it can really help give you a feel of pride and community.  

Evie: I didn't gain a lot of justice with my own experiences and I didn't stand up for myself back then because I was a child and that motivates me to stand up for these young people that feel they don't have a voice. Gaining justice in a setting like this is so good for my soul. I get to be part of change and that is what is incredible for me.  

[How could professionals use this model?] 

Emily: I'm imagining there are people listening to what you're all saying right now, who feel really inspired and challenged by what they've heard, but are starting to think about how they might be able to put this into practice. How would you like to see professionals using this model?  

Keeley: What sort of professionals should be doing is, like, talking to each other and picking up each other on things that they could do better or things that haven't really worked that they could possibly change. If I could give them some advice maybe, is to don't use it light heartedly, like, if you're going to-, if you're going to be inspired and be influenced by this model, actually take it in. Actually take the time and the effort to read it and to understand what it is that young people want from you.  

And if you still don't really understand it, maybe talk to one of your young people and say, 'Look, like, I've read this and I'm not really quite sure of what you mean and what you want but if you could explain to me a bit more about it that would be really helpful.' Don't be scared to approach them if you don't understand something. So in the first section, supporting young people in the care and making their own decisions, don't be scared to ask them what they actually want. And if they say that they don't know, help them to know what they want instead of just saying, 'Oh okay, well if you don't know then how are we supposed to know.' Like, just work with them collectively. It might take a bit of toing and froing but you will get there in the end, you really will.  

Evie: Young people may have never had their voice listened to before and therefore need some support to express their needs. I know in regards to safeguarding some things must be decided by professionals but it's the small things, asking the young people where they feel safe to have their meeting, if they want to bring someone etc.  

Keeley: I'm not hoping for an overnight change because Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm quite realistic in that it might take a little bit of time, but as long as the steps are going in the right direction, then I would hope that things would get better.  

And that also there'll be a bit more of a light-hearted relationship between social workers and young people or children, just so it's not so standoffish most of the time. All these barriers and walls and these negative thoughts and opinions that young people have towards, let's say, police officers, hope they will start to disappear and that, you know, police officers can feel like they can take their armour off and just be human and just have a regular conversation with a young person who's just out walking the streets.  

Meg: So Meg said: I think it's important to make sure you're listening to and checking in with young people. Recognise that every young person is different, experiences things differently. There is not one solution for all. You have to work to work with the young person and connect with them to be able to help them. Give them time and freedom. If social workers use this model, young people would become more trusting of professionals. Using this model is a way to reflect and work out how to really help young people. It's a slow change but taking the time to realise the importance of working with young people will benefit everybody. 

[Closing reflections] 

Susan: Thank you so much Meg, Keeley and Evie for sharing your model with us and to Kirsche for your support as well. In this podcast we've heard that participation goes hand in hand with safeguarding – that was something Evie said. After all young people are experts on themselves – Keeley brought that in. We need approaches which embody a participative approach where participation is fully integrated. Participating can be healing. It can build hope and be part of someone's recovery. We've heard that it can also be lifesaving. As Keeley said, and as Meg and Evie agreed, challenging your strength and expertise into changing things for others too is how participation can build hope. The connections made with others has a role in building confidence and that sense of self efficacy to change that which needs changing – something Meg talked about so poignantly. This model is for you, whoever is listening: share it, promote it, reflect on how you can bring it into practice and take a bit more time looking at it in depth.  

When I listened to everyone speak it reminded me of Dr Karen Treisman who talks about how relational trauma requires relational repair, which I think links to Evie's comments about how some young people have solid, irrefutable past evidence that trusted adults are not always trustworthy. So, the importance of feeling safe in your relationships requires belief and trust that practitioners and researchers can demonstrate how they believe in your agency and how they respect your boundaries and opinions. How does that listening translate into action?  

Finally our speakers today have demonstrated and modelled how bringing young people together can result in additional healing. I want to be careful there, as we aren't saying that young people should be made responsible for each other, but with well held and great empathic support, look how all of you as panel members lift each other up.  

So, before we close, we've taken an in-depth look at how vital participation is. Do you have any final messages? A key message for practitioners and organisations to carry with them throughout their work?  

Keeley: All I'm really going to say is don't be afraid to involve young people. Don't be afraid to ask them what they want. Don't be afraid to approach a young person one day and say,' Hey, do you want to be involved in this? Or what do you think about this?' Just ask them. The worst thing that they're going to turn around and say is ‘no’. And then you just go and ask somebody else. Because young people are screaming from the top of their lungs to be involved in anything that would make services change, to influence policy, to change anything that happens when they've been through a traumatic experience. And, like Evie has touched upon, trust can be broken right from the very moment that experience happens, and you are potentially the first person that young person is going to trust again. So, it really lies with you on whether they trust another adult again, when someone who they trusted before which was an adult had broken it. Just be that trustworthy adult that they need to be able to repair their relationships and to help them realise that there are some good people out still in the world.  

Meg: And Meg said also: listening is a skill that professionals have but not all of them use. Be aware that young people are using services for a reason so they need a gentle, caring approach. Involving them in work will help them more than you know.  

Close: Thanks for listening to this Research in Practice podcast. We hope you've enjoyed it. Why not share with your colleagues and let us know your thoughts on Twitter. Tweet us @researchip.